EOS - useful pages

eos

#1

Hello guys,

I cant say i really like EOS, specially for how they raised billions and released an unfinished code and pretty much zero governance. Still Dan has done pretty good platforms like STEEM which i really like so i did put some small investment into EOS.
Sadly there is very little info about useful pages (actually not unique to EOS) but after tons of searching i thought i share my findings with the rest of you guys. Hopefully it will help someone…

Telegram group for support/discussion:





#2

It’s good that you made a new thread about it… there’s so few articles on EOS.


#3

Glad you like it, if you have more links please do add them here :wink:


#4

an unfinished code and pretty much zero governance

What do you mean by this exactly? EOS is fully operational with DPOS. Where you getting this info? :joy:


#5

Allot of reading and making a assessment. And this new RAM deal. What the hell did that come from…
The role of the arbitrator and the debate around that.
The 4 billion being somewhere? The development team (consultants will move out of the project) is sort of up in the air. What is Dan’s role in all of this?
And yes governance is sort of a mess.
Also look at the link where you see a handful of whales being the majority of the votes.
The staking is pretty useless as far as i understand, It only lets you vote and send for free. Maybe if you could get RAM or something useful. I’m still learning so perhaps i’m wrong on some aspect but so far i’m not impressed.

Where do you get your info? any good links or information you like to share about how “good” things are? Genuinely curious.


#6

I will try my best to answer these :slight_smile:

And this new RAM deal. What the hell did that come from

Ram price is determined by the market.

The 4 billion being somewhere?

They have announced upwards of a billion dollars to fund hundreds of dapps to be built on EOS so far. I don’t personally know what the rest will be used for but there’s a good chance it will be used for similar purposes.

The development team (consultants will move out of the project) is sort of up in the air.

Basically in order to stay on the safe side, block.one announced they will not launch the blockchain meaning that any funds that they raised during the ICO have nothing to do with the actual blockchain. If some new laws come about about ICOs from any country - this basically ensured that they would be safe. The launch went fine anyways so doesn’t matter too much.
The team are still developing the software everyday.

And yes governance is sort of a mess.

It’s working as it was designed to. Voters voted on who they wanted in the same way miners can join mining pools in bitcoin to increase it’s influence.
If by that what you mean is the constitution - that has been removed from EOS.
If by that what you mean is freezing accounts - the beauty of DPOS is that it can stop scammers unlike bitcoin making the platform very user friendly. If someone hacks into an account - not only does it take 3 days to withdraw but you have essentially 21 governments looking out for you. All the shit about ethereum being full of scammy projects will likely not be a problem of EOS. If a node does freeze an account that wasn’t a scammer or under suspicion - its likely those BPs will lose all reputation and likely not be voted in.

From a governance perspective - EOS is literally the most decentralized coin in the top 10 with 17/21 BPs needed for decisions. In bitcoin and ethereum - 2-3 entities control the entire platform. 21 is pretty good decentralization at least for now.

Also look at the link where you see a handful of whales being the majority of the votes.

This is the same for every single coin. EOS is no different to bitcoin, ethereum, bch. If I can remember correctly - 1.6% of wallets on EOS hold 90% of total coins so it’s not too bad. Although it’s difficult to see how centralized it all actually is as one person could be using multiple wallets.
If you’re worried about a single party gaining too much influence DPoS and PoS are very resistant to this. If it was found out that one organisation owned the majority of EOS and/or someone was acting malicious those coins could just burnt. If the same were to happen on Bitcoin - if a party had too much mining power ( currently bitmain controls 42% of bitcoin ) there would be no way to stop them from gaining power as you can’t vote out hardware.

There is always a possibility that we would never be able to find out that a person owns so much if he hides it - but this problems goes with every PoS and DPoS coin - not just eos. But atleast PoS and DPoS systems have a way to deal with it.

The staking is pretty useless as far as i understand, It only lets you vote and send for free

EOS coins aren’t like any other coin. The fact that you own them entitles you to a portion of the network bandwidth, storage a bunch of other stuff. In the future there will probably be ways to rent out your coins to dapp developers looking to build dapps on EOS so you can earn passive income.


#7

I will try my best to answer these :slight_smile:

Thanks,good to see people actually make a meaningful discussion. That is why i like our pub :slight_smile:
With so much news and projects its hard to keep up. I give some short answer to the responses too.

And this new RAM deal. What the hell did that come from

Ram price is determined by the market.

Sure but why was it added out of the blue (atleast to noobs like me). Some say RAM is the real valuable coin due to its usefulness. This will only confuse and make it hard to invest in EOS in my opinion.
Actually i just found a good video explaining it pretty well:

The 4 billion being somewhere?

They have announced upwards of a billion dollars to fund hundreds of dapps to be built on EOS so far. I don’t personally know what the rest will be used for but there’s a good chance it will be used for similar purposes.

Cool, did not know this. I see they funded 4-5 VC. Still 3 Billion in the pocket though. But pretty good they atleast invest some of it back into the system.

The development team (consultants will move out of the project) is sort of up in the air.

Basically in order to stay on the safe side, block.one announced they will not launch the blockchain meaning that any funds that they raised during the ICO have nothing to do with the actual blockchain. If some new laws come about about ICOs from any country - this basically ensured that they would be safe. The launch went fine anyways so doesn’t matter too much.
The team are still developing the software everyday.

Remains to be seen really. I hope the transition will be smooth to new people once they completely leave.
Like passing on the responsibility to community.

And yes governance is sort of a mess.

It’s working as it was designed to. Voters voted on who they wanted in the same way miners can join mining pools in bitcoin to increase it’s influence.
If by that what you mean is the constitution - that has been removed from EOS.
If by that what you mean is freezing accounts - the beauty of DPOS is that it can stop scammers unlike bitcoin making the platform very user friendly. If someone hacks into an account - not only does it take 3 days to withdraw but you have essentially 21 governments looking out for you. All the shit about ethereum being full of scammy projects will likely not be a problem of EOS. If a node does freeze an account that wasn’t a scammer or under suspicion - its likely those BPs will lose all reputation and likely not be voted in.

On one hand i can agree with the scam part. Also one reason i like ETH (code can not be law when scam and dishonest players are in the play, so the role of arbitrator can be a valid one). But no one even knew what the role of arbitrator was to begin with. Who even voted in this dude Sam? What is his background?
He send a letter ordering block producers around. And now his arguing that Dan should not get himself involved since he will reduce the arbitrators mandate!
Atleast if we believe Dan’s word the role of arbitrator should be to act as a judge. But only when the code is not doing what it was developed to do. Not sure if i say this correctly :slight_smile: sorry English isnt my first language.

From a governance perspective - EOS is literally the most decentralized coin in the top 10 with 17/21 BPs needed for decisions. In bitcoin and ethereum - 2-3 entities control the entire platform. 21 is pretty good decentralization at least for now.

Also look at the link where you see a handful of whales being the majority of the votes.

This is the same for every single coin. EOS is no different to bitcoin, ethereum, bch. If I can remember correctly - 1.6% of wallets on EOS hold 90% of total coins so it’s not too bad. Although it’s difficult to see how centralized it all actually is as one person could be using multiple wallets.
If you’re worried about a single party gaining too much influence DPoS and PoS are very resistant to this. If it was found out that one organisation owned the majority of EOS and/or someone was acting malicious those coins could just burnt. If the same were to happen on Bitcoin - if a party had too much mining power ( currently bitmain controls 42% of bitcoin ) there would be no way to stop them from gaining power as you can’t vote out hardware.

How can it be so when 2-3 wallets control majority of votes? the Blue+orange (see the visual page)
Still i guess this will happen with any open system and it remains to be seen how decentralized it is
when we have a real issue…

There is always a possibility that we would never be able to find out that a person owns so much if he hides it - but this problems goes with every PoS and DPoS coin - not just eos. But atleast PoS and DPoS systems have a way to deal with it.

The staking is pretty useless as far as i understand, It only lets you vote and send for free

EOS coins aren’t like any other coin. The fact that you own them entitles you to a portion of the network bandwidth, storage a bunch of other stuff. In the future there will probably be ways to rent out your coins to dapp developers looking to build dapps on EOS so you can earn passive income.
[/quote]

I really hope so.

I’m guessing your a believer in EOS :wink: , are you staking your EOS? What wallet do you use?
Any tips for noobies like myself?


#8

Remains to be seen really. I hope the transition will be smooth to new people once they completely leave.
Like passing on the responsibility to community.

Block.one are only responsible for the software. EOS blockchain will just copy the software made by block.one. They were never with the actual blockchain and it was announced prior to the ICO.

Who even voted in this dude Sam?

This is directly from EOS New York who is a block producer who I talked to about it:

  • ‘He is a community member who has been here longer than I have and has been a wonderful debate partner and contributor to the very discussions that helped shape the spirit of governance we launched with as well as what a BPs role in it all is.’
  • ‘He is an interim arbitrator.’ - so he was appointed just for disputes between EOS BPs.

I was also worried about him when I first read about it.

How can it be so when 2-3 wallets control majority of votes?

Do you have a link to this? This may be so in terms of actual wallets that did vote - but in terms of total voting power this is not the case. Here is the distribution of EOS coins right before the launch:
https://etherscan.io/token/EOS#balances

I’m guessing your a believer in EOS

It’s the one blockchain that I think focuses on actual problems and delivers on time ;3. Atm I’m not staking EOS or anything.


#9

I know that and it worried me even then (their contract was pretty ugly). But maybe it was due to government regulation as you mentioned. Still don’t sit right with me. But that is in the past :slight_smile:

I remember watching Ivan on Tech who is a skilled programmer and youtuber looking him up on linkedin and only found a gardner :slight_smile: Pretty funny. Still he is not someone people voted in (as far as i know). How was he selected or elected ?
Where is his role described? Very curious on this subject since it will play a big role on the whole eco system.
If he is a bad actor people should be able to re-elect someone else.

Check here: http://eos-bp-votes.dapptools.info/#/block-producers
Most people have their coins on exchanges and if i understand it correct bitfinex has allot of them in their wallet which gives them a tremendous voting right.
Same with a few other wallets like the eosnewyourkio and few others.

To be honest Steem is already pretty darn good for content already. Dan already did this years ago.
What other real world problems does EOS solve that is so unique? What problems have they solved right now?
So far they have not achieved anything but to launch the code which has to prove itself to be useful.
Again i might be wrong but I havent seen anything useful built on top of EOS currently. If you have please share some links.

By the way why dont you stake your coins? Any reason to not stake them ? Wont staking them help the network ?


#10

I know that and it worried me even then (their contract was pretty ugly). But maybe it was due to government regulation as you mentioned. Still don’t sit right with me. But that is in the past :slight_smile:

EOS is a decentralized blockchain - no one should have power over it anyways. Them not being able to launch the blockchain was the only problem about it - but that went smoothly and all is well.

Still he is not someone people voted in (as far as i know). How was he selected or elected ?

Essentially before the 21 BPs were elected he was nominated. Now that the network is running he is still supported by all the BPs. He works for ECAF - their website can be found here: https://eoscorearbitration.io/home/governance/ They just deal with disputes and are fully elected by the current BPs. That can change anytime though if BPs change their mind or voters change their mind.

You can’t be having a blockchain with no customer support for true mass adoption. What happens went your grandad falls for a scam or gets his account hacked because he has no experience.

Most people have their coins on exchanges and if i understand it correct bitfinex has allot of them in their wallet which gives them a tremendous voting right.

There is only a 18.7% voter engagement. The other 81.3% can come and vote for new BPs essentially anytime. And yeah exchanges do hold a really large portion which is a problem for all PoS and DPoS based coins like EOS, soon to be Ethereum, NEO, ADA, NANO, DASH, Tezos etc.

To be honest Steem is already pretty darn good for content already

I think the Steem blockchain which was built by Dan is good but the platform Steemit itself is pretty shit. Anyone with enough coins can downvote your account and stop your posts from ever being viewed etc. Dan has announced that he will be building a steemit 2.0 on EOS.

What other real world problems does EOS solve that is so unique?

Sub second latency, infinite scalability and 0 fees allows for social media sites like steemit to be built that are user friendly. EOS itself it free for the user to use - this goes for all dapps built on it ( unless ofcourse the dapp creator makes it cost money for users ). No one will ever use a service in which they need to pay for every button they press - and currently anything built on Ethereum, bitcoin requires users to do this. Please tell me how any dapp will reach mass adoption when users need to pay to like a comment.

These are only 2 features that will come with EOS - there will also be in-built decentralized storage for dapps, an account system, elected BPs that users can go to if their funds are stolen.

Dapps on EOS are also built in any language that can be decompiled into WebAssembly and may add an EVM in the future.

Dan moved away from Steem and Bitshares mainly because he realized there were some problems in governance and he wanted to fix that with a new blockchain.

Bitshares and steem also had a number of problems which dan could not fix. I believe he left bitshares due to them not wanting to move to an inflationary model that would essentially allow for 0 fees. He then said this about Steemit:

‘While a novel concept it has opened the doors for widespread community abuse, fraud and the extortion of lesser members by wealthier members possessing the site reputation and money to control and censure content at will. The decentralized concept of STeemit is currently failing in many regards due to uneven wealth distribution, no moderation, no polices or governance and the fact that that the wealthier members are granted unrestricted power to dictate policy at will and extort lower income members of the site. The decentralized nature of Steemit and lack of strict moderation have also led to instances of child pornography[4] being uploaded to the site.’

After using Steemit I also came into the same problems with a guy completely downvoting my entire account because I had an argument and there’s nothing I can do about it.

EOS solves all the problems mentioned above. Also keep in mind that he built the underlying blockchain technology behind both bitshares and steemit before leaving.

What problems have they solved right now?

They have the fastest blockchain in existence with 0.5 second block times meaning dapps built on it right now will be the fastest dapps in existence. The next dapp platform even close to the speed of EOS is STEEM and Bitshares both built by Dan Larimer with average blocktimes of 1.5s.
We also got the 0 fee problem solved already.

You do have NANO with virtually instant transactions however it isn’t a dapp platform and isn’t a blockchain.

By the way why dont you stake your coins? Any reason to not stake them ? Wont staking them help the network ?

Waiting for it to be on a hardware wallet. I don’t want to hold EOS on my computer for security reasons. Plus my small amount of coins won’t affect the network ;p


#11

Well if there wasnt enough whales before now there is one. Blockone has come out and will be suing their token it seems. This might be a good thing at the first but it remains to be seen if this will be good in the future. https://www.coindesk.com/block-one-is-taking-a-bigger-role-with-eos-and-thats-a-big-deal/

Why not stay and fix it? Same thing can happen with any project. This is one of my biggest concern from the start. Unless you nail down the governance and rules it will get destroyed by greed. Dan staying on the sideline from start and let the community do the work will just repeat history all over. We already see a BP manipulate RAM prices with inside trading.

Then comes RAM into picture. Also it has not been proved that all of it works. Its to early to say this project is a success until a real dapp or something useful is created. I still think STEEM and Dtube are awesome and actually works. Maybe the payment is corrupted somewhat but still.
Once we have the next version of decentralized STEEM/Dtube or facebook/twitter/youtube we can compare :slight_smile:
And as for speed there are tons of projects that are fast but lets see how secure and fast they are when they can the same level of usage.
I’m keeping my EOS still since there is for sure potential in it but lets just say i’m not impressed how they handle allot of things.

ps.Thanks for the good replies. I’m also a small fish hehe


#12

Well if there wasnt enough whales before now there is one

Block.one only owns 10% of the total supply.
Once again though - this level of centralization is seen everywhere with bitcoin currently essentially being controlled by 2 entities. If I can remember correctly - Ethereum was also at a similar level of centralization during it’s launch but after a few years it’s supply has seemed to become more decentralized - perhaps the same will happen with EOS.
I think that block.one voting is quite a good thing anyways. As you said - bitfinex is a big problem with votes ( which I also agree ) - having two massive whale voters should hopefully offset this. Block.one also has no incentive to fuck up EOS in anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

Why not stay and fix it?

‘starting over with new blockchains is not something I do lightly. I do it only when there are intractable problems with the underlying foundation.’
Basically he said Steemit was unfixable.

Unless you nail down the governance and rules it will get destroyed by greed.

He has learnt more than anyone by creating two massive platforms in the past. It’s more than likely he has solved that issues. Ethereum and bitcoin are still limited by massive governance issues. Dan has probably had the most experience in blockchain governance in the space.

Dan staying on the sideline from start and let the community do the work will just repeat history all over

Block.one is providing the software. It’s impossible for any central entity to have control over a decentralized blockchain when it is launched and that’s the philosiphy they’re following. Also the legal aspects are very nice for EOS. Yes they can vote, but once again they only have 10% of tokens.

We already see a BP manipulate RAM prices with inside trading

It’s a free market, people can speculate on whatever prices they need. I haven’t done much research into it but the way RAM works can always be changed if it becomes a big enough of a problem. I’m not sure whether I also like the way RAM operates either - we’ll have to wait for a big dapp to be built to see it - I agree :slight_smile:

Also it has not been proved that all of it works

If it didn’t work, the blockchain wouldn’t be live and running with 0 fees and sub second latency. Sure technical issues can arise - but at the moment the fastest blockchain in existence is live and that’s pretty cool.

And as for speed there are tons of projects that are fast but lets see how secure and fast they are when they can the same level of usage

blocktivity.info shows the level of usage for each blockchain. As you can see, both Steem and Bitshares are the two most used blockchain in history, both made by Dan. The level of usage won’t affect EOS even before it’s scalability upgrades which will be coming in the summer. Currently EOS is capable of just over 1k TPS which no blockchain even requires at this point.

Furthermore, it won’t have the fee problems that ethereum experiences due to users not paying fees for transactions even if the network was fully clogged.

At this point - I still like EOS ( obviously nothing is perfect ). It’s really hard to know whether or not the claims behind EOS are legitimate or just actual bullshit exaggerations like the ECAF fud.

If you do have some questions though - the EOS BP telegram group is open in which BPs are always replying to questions. Dan Larimer is also always replying to people on the EOS telegram group personally.

Also here’s a good video the explains some of the solutions to the RAM problems:


#13

Lets say we have similar hope for the project. I dont agree with everything but i still hope for this project to succeed.
I actually watched another video from the same youtuber for understanding what the RAM is all about. He’s pretty good: (still thanks for sharing his latest video, good info)

For activity actually ETH is unquestionably the most used right now (if i look here):
https://www.blocktivity.info/

Funny thing is even if ETH is over-allocated my transactions go through in less then a minute. Never could understand why that is. I pay just 0.000861 Ether ($0.38) for a transfer just now which is still quite high for ETH but no way close to what BTC usually is when the network is busy. For now ETH/NEO are my favorite projects and crypto overall (ok i have a few more like ICX/VTC/NAV and some more). Hoping for EOS to get to my top list soon as well :slight_smile:

I’m keeping the list with what i find so if you have other good links please do share.
I can maybe also add some relevant channels for Telegram. I agree that people there are very helpful. Fast and good answers.


#14

For activity actually ETH is unquestionably the most used right now (if i look here):

Bitshares and steemit both have higher transaction volumes than ethereum on the website :stuck_out_tongue:

But yeah - never know what will succeed in the long run. Maybe Ethereum will pull something out of the bag and become mainstream.


#15

That would not surprise me, they have been working hard for a long time and Vitalik is smart as hell so i’m sort of hoping for the flippening :smiley: , plus i like the idea of PoS + PoW combination. Best of both worlds.


#16

Have you heard of starkware? Ethereum will soon have zk-starks so it might eat a bunch out of privacy coins o;

I’m not too sure on how well the governance works in PoS system ( I’d imagine it’s much, much slower than DPoS ) but with Caspar PoS, Sharding and Plasma it will be really cool to see a blockchain without central nodes with low latency and capable of millions of TPS.

It would be really cool if someone could steal the bandwidth idea from EOS in that the amount of coins you own allows you to do a certain number of TPS for dapps and yourself and merge that with Ethereum allowing for 0 fees.


#17

Not really, i knew about privacy being introduced in casper with the help of zk but didnt know about starkware project. Seems they are very hush hush about it. No public sale or anything for us mortals. Thanks for the info. Always interesting to learn more about the space.

Speedwise (also fee), there are quite allot of coins like NAV, PivX and even NEO just to mention a few. NEO is even without fee + they have also 2 options for huge scaling. I think ONT is using one of them.
NEO is also going to introduce Trinity (https://www.neonbeginner.com/2018/06/28/trinity-officially-launches-its-scaling-solution-for-neo/) which from my little understanding is similar to LN for BTC. Like a offchain solution.
https://www.neonbeginner.com/2018/07/11/neo-3-0-upgrade-proposal-released-to-the-community/#.W0ZUTBs_q0Q.reddit
Already there are tons of dapps on neo so EOS will have competition :slight_smile:
http://ndapp.org/

As you can tell i’m a huge NEO fan :wink:
But its always good with competition and innovation. Lets see where we are at in 1 year’s time. Next summer so to say.


#18

Starkware isn’t a new coin - it’s just a better version of zk-snarks which zcash currently uses. This will be added to Ethereum in the future allowing for mathematically private transactions.

Pivx with their zPiv coins are a really cool concept - they’re also releasing a private dex soon in which you’ll be able to convert Pivx with bitcoin. But I don’t think they’ll be introducing smart contracts soon ( as far as I’m aware ).

As for NEO - I used to be a big fan of it back in the antshares days but recently I’ve kinda fallen out with it. Do you think it’s safe to say that the fact that someone wanting to be a node has to first be approved by the NEO foundation essentially makes the platform completely centralized seeing as how you only get to choose from selected nodes.
I believe this is the quote:

All nominees for consensus nodes will go through a rigorous identification process before being voted in on MainNet. This process includes providing identification that can hold the owners of the consensus node host legally liable.

Also Trinity should also be able to be used on Ethereum if I’m correct.

but beyond centralization, I think the bigger concern with NEO should be the quality of their code-base as from the various in-depth writeups I’ve seen, they have serious quality issues in their existing core code.

is also something interesting that I’ve also heard a lot about.

Idk if my information here is wrong but correct me if it is - I don’t research NEO as much as I do EOS :stuck_out_tongue:


#19

Ok i didnt realize (thanks for correcting me). IF/when that happens as you said ETH will be grabbing lots of privacy coins share i assume. Maybe that is why :slight_smile:

I did read that NEO was giving up the power to CoZ which is a open community so they can ger more decentralized.

By the way, if you havent signed up with EOS Authority, do it. They will inform you about your account and each time you get a airdrop. Pretty cool stuff. You just give you account name and thats it.

Cheers.