There has always been a good practice in business. If there are ten people in a room make one person disagree with the group no matter what the topic is and come up with reasons for it. So as a group, give me reasons to not buy bitcoin…
I’ll give it a shot:
It’s heavily manipulated by whales, future contracts, and OTC trading.
It’s centralized (both mining and token distribution).
The store of value narrative has (arguably) failed.
It is no longer scarce (paper bitcoins have completely ruined that).
It’s technologically inferior to alternative currencies (it’s slow, fees are high, doesn’t scale, etc).
@Nathan_D so what garbage do you approve of? You spend an awful lot of time here in cryptoland, you must be supportive of some other
To any viewers of this thread, his comments are false, lies or just made up. Unless he’s just kidding ofc
I wasn’t kidding. As for my comments being lies… seriously? Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t make it a lie. Calling someone a liar is a pretty serious accusation. It also suggests that you entirely missed the point of this exercise.
I listed 5 statements about BTC. I’d love to see your counter arguments:
Manipulation: Every single crypto is heavily manipulated and have centralized distribution.
Mining: Only 4 pools control half the hashrate.
Store of Value: This one is arguable, and I don’t believe it, but listing potential cons was part of the exercise.
Scarcity: Paper bitcoins have destroyed the scarcity narrative as you don’t even need to own them to partake in the SoV narrative anymore.
Technologically inferior: It doesn’t scale, fees are absurd, and it’s slow as hell. Not sure how this one is even debatable.
It’s common practice in business if there are 10 people and 9 all say yes to something the 10th must say no and counter with reasons why. That was what this exercise was for. So thank you @Nathan_D for that. I’m sold on bitcoin so I wanted to see some counter arguments against it.
“paper bitcoin” argument: if 1 person owns 1 Bitcoin, that can not be owned by anyone else. Scarcity unaffected. If anyone is selling you some paper or something representing 1 BTC, be wary.
Fee’s argument. You do not use Bitcoin. You have confirmed this. Fees are not high, and you are listening/learning from people who attack Bitcoin, you have zero experience using it. (you have proven this, with your fees comment)
SOV: ofc BTC is the best SOV. Argue this with specifics pls
Manipulation: same with everything.
if you think the USD, or stock market is not manipulated, think again. News, information in general? how about, everything? haha
KingCoin18, that’s actually a pretty smart thing to do before investing with anything. Good on you for that
Oh, i forgot the most fun one, shit. “Technological inferior”, “slow as hell”
would you prefer “fast as hell” like Paypal?
remember guys, if you want quickest transactions, you can use centralized shit like Paypal
If you want DECENTRALIZED and SECURE , unconfiscatable like Bitcoin, sure must (for now) endure slower txns
As for fees, i’ve already commented. Anyone who claims BTC fees are high is an auto-confirmation they dont use it, probably never have, and take their advices/info from others who’re pushing agendas (ie: bcashers, altcoiners, etc)
This is the type of threads I like to see on the pub. Hopefully we can keep this thread civilized and learn from each other.
I feel like it depends on which Bitcoin narrative you believe. If you believe Bitcoin’s primary use is for store of value, then yeh decentralised and secure is the way to go. But then if you believe Bitcoin is for replacing fiat, then things like fees and transaction time do matter. Normal people would be turned off with buying something and having the transaction cost more than the product.
One other issue I see with Bitcoin is that you are your own bank narrative. This has its own pros and cons. With this reason, I believe Bitcoin is not for everyone, especially since you are managing your own keys and making sure you entering the correct address. There is still a lot of people who don’t know how to use mobile phones, let alone use a hardware wallet.
I actually feel like Bitcoin’s fee’s will majorly hinder it as being a store of value. Fees will be in the hundreds of not thousands of dollars, how are normal people going to store their coins? $BTC will be the only coin in the top 10 where normal people must store them on an exchange and never move them due to the high fees.
The LN doesn’t fix scalability as it needs a high blocksize to be used.
Last bull run, at one point both $ETH and $XRP were worth 3/4 of $BTC’s market cap. I think there’s a clear trend showing of alts catching up.
I feel this is one of the hardest things for people to get past. If someone fraudulently takes money from your bank account the bank will give it back to you after researching it. If it happens to your bitcoin you are shit outta luck.
It seems that you don’t understand what paper bitcoins are. Research it and you’ll realize that it’s the equivalent of printing new bitcoin.
We’re trying to have a proper discussion here. That can’t be achieved if you keep making random assumptions. I own bitcoin and I use bitcoin.
Listening to other people? I’ve paid over $50 per transaction before, and it took over 5 hours to confirm. Recently I had one take over 3 hours. This isn’t me listening to other people… this is me using it and seeing first hand how shitty it is.
Back in 2017, some people paid over $1000 USD per transaction. These transactions often took days to validate. Sure, the network is marginally more efficient now, but any sort of bull run will send fees back to ridiculous levels. Even at the current fees and confirmation times, it’s completely unusable for making basic purchases.
I agree that it’s the best SoV. I was merely playing devils advocate, which is the purpose of this discussion. The SoV narrative is why I own BTC.
Correct. But thats “right now”. Other projects have plans to solve this, meanwhile BTC devs have nothing other than the dead end called the Lightning Network. I’m interested in a practical solution that can make crypto usable for the masses. BTC is not it.
This is the epitome of confirmation bias, and exactly why BTC maximalism is ridiculed.
Roger Ver claims he pays $1000 fees, this is ridiculous. I use Bitcoin for almost a decade, and now use every single day, never paid anything close to that, not even in '17. He lie, cheat, steal, he’d sell his soul too push his alt.
The arguments against BTC are quite often and they’re usually very incorrect. So many altcoin projects trying to spin trash around fight dirty, in support of their project, examples are: Ver, Wright, Ayre, Garlinghouse, Vinny, R.Heart and even Vitalik sometimes.
If anyone has questions about Bitcoin fees ask here, i can show you any fee for transaction as recent as today! (using it every single day)
Yup, that’s probably one of the most difficult aspects of Bitcoin that people need to understand. Must be very responsible with where you send, as transactions are immutable
That’s a positive aspect with traditional banking. You have possible reverse transactions, but you’re paying for that with fees etc
Even if it was Ver that claimed a $1000 transaction fee, I know someone who paid nearly $800. Anyway, this has nothing to do with Ver or any sort of agenda, as I’m trying to stick to objective analysis.
BTC transaction fees skyrocket anytime the market picks up. All you have to do is check the blockchain. The data is all there and can be verified by anyone.
At the peak of the bull run, the AVERAGE transaction fee was $55 USD. The current average for April is around $0.75 USD, and that’s with hardly any actual usage. As far as I’m concerned, anything over $0.05 is completely unacceptable.
I really don’t understand how this is even up for debate. I mean, obviously what constitutes an “acceptable” fee is subjective, however there’s no getting around the fact that BTC fees make it completely impractical for commerce purposes. There’s no way I can justify paying a 40% premium to buy coffee, just because BTC devs are too stubborn to innovate.
If a piece of technology wants to have any shot at mass adoption, being slow is the quickest way to sink that ship. Normal, everyday technology end users have a very low tolerance for latency and will abandon at the hint of something better i.e. faster.
I guess I’ll bite on this one.
Too expensive. Most people are not long term thinkers. Seeing one Bitcoin worth $7K+ is too much risk in their eyes, and they either run away or go towards alt coins instead.
Slow transaction times. Waiting for confirmations is a pain if you need something to go through in a timely manner. While it’s potentially a non issue in the long run, it turns many people away currently.
Extremely volatile. There’s a specific demographic who will take the risk on investing in something like this, and it’s not many (if it were, Bitcoin would have been millions long ago ). 99% of the alt coin market being tethered to Satoshi value with Bitcoin dropping either leads to you getting out via stablecoin or back to fiat. More often than not, it’s back to your bank account. Again, allegedly a non issue in the long term.
Ease of use. Having control over your funds are fine and dandy, but people prefer usability over reasoning (for the most part). Most of us here are tech savvy, while the rest of the world are not. There are more people inquiring about why their computer browser is slow with 500 tabs open versus than those who instantly know why.
Regulatory uncertainty (albeit significantly less than years ago. Is it legal in my area? How is it taxed? What happens if it’s transferred from this country to that? One day, Bitcoin is completely fine, then the next is teetering on unstable waters due to some sort of government regulation. Too many legal loopholes to go through if you’re investing tons of money.
Those are the main ones I can think of. I think the majority of ers know these risks before seriously getting into Bitcoin, otherwise they wouldn’t be holding on for this long.
Can you clarify for me what you are saying? You think it’s a bad thing that the price goes up and down and people have to determine when to hold or sell it? Thank you in advance for clarification.
I think the main reason not to buy the cryptocurrency is that the cost of bitcoin is always changing and it’s not good for the people that sell it on their own. You see, it’s great when someone wants to sell the cryptocurrency but not anyone knows how to buy it correctly. The way I see it, it’s important to note that (for example) in Australia is a good article which explains how to get it correctly (from the best sellers). It’s called https://cryptohead.io/ and it helped me with cryptocurrency which I’m very happy about…
Mate are you a bot?
Anyways so what your basically saying is that some people are stupid and shouldn’t buy bitcoin, then I agree.