Please do not give money to the bell ringers

#1

It has been bothering me since I heard about the CEO of the Salvation Army fraudulently claiming a $13,000 yearly salary when in fact it is over 6 million dollars. It started bothering me more when I found out how they discriminate against certain people. It made me mad when I found out they believe all gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people should be put to death. Not lying or joking. Here is some copy paste…

In mid-June 2012, gay pop star Darren Hayes made comments critical of the Salvation Army’s stance regarding homosexuality, referencing that organization’s position statement on the subject:

Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.

Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.

In keeping with these convictions, the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army’s doctrine and discipline.

Hayes called for a boycott of the Salvation Army, tweeting that it was “Important for gay people to know the true position of the Salvation Army when considering who to donate to.” In response to the attention focused on the Salvation Army by Hayes’ comments, a few days later LGBT journalists Serena Ryan and Pete Dillon interviewed Major Andrew Craibe, a Salvation Army Media Relations Director based in Australia, for the radio program Salt and Pepper on Melbourne radio station Joy FM.

During that interview, Serena Ryan asked Major Craibe about the Salvation Army’s Handbook of Doctrine, which includes reference to a Biblical passage that the Salt and Pepper hosts maintained was condemnatory of homosexuals and called for them to be punished by death. An excerpt from that interview which was widely circulated on the Internet prompted a great deal of controversy for seemingly showing that Major Craibe agreed with the concept that Salvation Army doctrine called for homosexuals to be put to death:

Ryan: “If I go and I read that [Handbook of Doctrine], and I connect with my [homo]sexuality, then that says, according to the Salvation Army, that I deserve death. How do you respond to that, as part of your doctrine?”

Craibe: “Well, that’s a part of our belief system.”

Ryan: “So we should die.”

Craibe: “Well, we have an alignment to the Scriptures, but that’s our belief.”

And it just keeps getting worse, this is just one of many times they have out right claimed anyone in the LBGT community should be put to death.

THIS IS A HATE GROUP. period. I am not in the LGBT community, but this is the same type of crap the Christian fundamentalists like this used when trying to keep slavery by law, using bible verses and discrimination in the name of a (supposed) god. I ask you today, if you are reading this, please do not donate to these evil people. Please tell everyone you know, what you read today. THANK YOU!

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#2

This makes me mad when people take stuff out of context. If you really want to go down this rabbit hole with the topic then you are saying all Christians believe this as it is part of every Christians belief system as it is part of the bible.

Yes there have been corrupt things happen in the salvation army. So what there are is corruptness in every organization of that size including the Red Cross, LGBT rights groups, and many more it doesn’t matter the cause when things get this big there will be corruption. Its the nature of man kind when that much power and money is given to a few.

With regards to it being a HATE group that is just false. You are grouping a very large group of people basically all Christians into one. You are also taking one mans actions and stating they are representative of all that are part of that organisation and saying everyone is exactly like him. You are doing the same thing that you say you dislike about the Salvation Army. It is hypocritical and naive to make statements like this. I know quite a few people in the salvation army and they are nothing like you are trying to portray them here.

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#3

I think fundamentalism is in all groups.

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#4

This is stupidity, surely wrapped in hypocrisy.

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#5

So you think it is crazy and you believe in the bible?
So you think a rebellious child should be murdered?
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 King James Version (KJV)

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear

And surely then you must believe females should not teach or speak in public? And it is the fault of the woman for evil on the earth ya?

Timothy 2:11-15 King James Version (KJV)

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

And then there is cannibalism… That is just and good ya?

Leviticus 26:27-30 King James Version (KJV)

27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

I’m not even sure what to make of this…

Deuteronomy 25:11-14 King James Version (KJV)

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:

12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

If you know anything about the history of the salvation army you’d know William Booth was a slave owner who adamantly fought against freedom and equality… using bible verses like:

1 Peter 2:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

…and there is

Ezekiel 23:20:
She lusted after their male consorts, whose sexual organs were like those of donkeys, and whose ejaculation was like that of horses.

Did you know Jesus endorsed slavery? When he was asked about what should be done with a slave, that isn’t working hard enough…

Jesus said:

" Matthew 25:30 King James Version (KJV)

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

These verses are an undeniable part of the evil contained in the so called “Good book”.

Not sure if this is against the Salvation Army or my research… please do explain…

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#6

I hate no one and am simply asking people to not support a group that discriminates. I believe all people should be viewed as equal, regardless of race, religion, sexual preference, or gender. The Salvation Army believes in restricting the rights of others by discrimination and views others who make choices such as sexual preference that are different than the way they are, should be punished by a god. That to me, is not love your neighbor as yourself.

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#7

Guys, Galls, Gays, Lesbians and Bisexuals, did I miss anyone out?

I find this whole post coming from a very uneducated perspective.

In regards to Christianity, God allegedly knows you and what you will do well before you are even born, I am of an opinion that no one chooses their sexuality and therefore God certainly knows which way “your individual cookie crumbles” so to speak. Given that Jesus had a prostitute (Mary Magdaline) as one of his closest friend, the idea that LGBT would be anything than well received for the great persons they are is completely bonkers.

Christianity is about love. So anything that diminishes this from my perspective is not Christianity but shows a clear lack of understanding and acceptance of anyone else irrespective of their creed, colour, sexual orientation or individual beliefs.

Simply quoting sections out the bible that if you take it literally are negative, given it was written during a period of much murder and debauchery in the world, is not relevant and is unnecessarily flaming and pretty pointless.

I think I have said all I want to on this matter, you are welcome to your view however please be careful to gloss over all Christians with the same brush or for that matter all those working in the salvation army. Corruption is everywhere and we should all be mindful in regards to this.

A big thumbs up to all the Christians out there whether they be gay or otherwise, Peace on Earth!! Come on the Crypto!!!

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#8

All groups of any orientation discriminate. Hence why the group being formed. We here at the Pub have a tendency to discriminate towards those that like FIAT or gooberment money to some extent.

My problem with your post and what you are asking is that you are making your decision and announcement based off of a single persons action and a line in a hand book with out mentioning all of the good that they have done. With your statements above you are making a generalization that all Salvation Army groups are discriminatory and corrupt by lumping them under one persons actions. That single line item does not in any way state that the entirety or even majority of the Salvation Army believes in restricting rights of other people. It does state that more than likely they believe like many christians that those transgressions will be delt with by god.

Your view and why you are making this announcement are of course your opinion and it is mine that it is very flawed and naive to lump a very large group of people under a single persons actions. I also never stated that you hated anyone this again is a a flaw as you are adding context that is not there or expressed. Just like you added the restricting of rights context to something in a handbook that probably hasn’t been updated since the time when society as a whole felt that way about gays and lesbians and prior to transgender ever being a thing.

In the end i simply disagree with your post to boycott due to your lack of any actual reasons, and naive generalization of the organisation as a whole.

#9

Also Christianity is not about what Church you belong to… more in line with how you conduct yourself.

Less judgmental and more understanding!

Fundamentalism is everywhere… too true…@Peter… and me for one really don’t want it in the pub!! We are a wide varied group of people and we have to be as understanding as we can.

Take a leaf out of Corrie ten Boom’s book. … look her up and what she did will probably bring a tear to your eye… most amazing… we should all try and have her grace.

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#10

You need to read a bit more. Picking and choosing the line without the context just shows your ignorance of the “Good Book”: The entire chapter is about being talented and wasting that talent.

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#11

There are about 40,000 christian church organisations , three quarters of them independent churches. Many of which say their version is correct and the rest are wrong.

The argument for or against religion is an empty never ending argument.
My point is the Salvation army lies and is deceptive, an example would be the published CEO salary of 13k when it is in reality over 6 million. And the main decision makers at the top believing LBGT people should die and be punished, sighting Romans chapter 1, saying gay people should be put to death. IT IS IN THE HR HANDBOOK. They lobbied against laws preventing discrimination. NOT SAYING THEY DON’T DO GOOD WORK. NOT SAYING EVERYONE RINGING A BELL IS A BIGGOT.

#12

So why not say- use what talents you have and don’t waste them? I have about 15 bibles, I have read the book many times and I think it is a compilation of what the powers that were… thought the masses should have, and an improperly translated record of mans failed attempt at freeing the world of evil. But again, everyone is different, and I respect all people and all views, unless they discriminate or want to impede the rights or freedoms of others. Arguing religion is pointless.

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#13

I have dozens more


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#14

That is pretty much what the entire chapter does say. Maybe you should actually read some of those 15 bibles.

Arguing religion is pointless and then you post that garbage! This guy is clueless on the bible and is exactly what I would call evil.

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#15

Everyone is different. Bless you and your family and community. Have a great day!

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#16

Do you have any specific examples of where, when, and how the Salvation Army has murdered or sponsored the death of anyone? If you can provide evidence, I’ll join forces with you. If not, then you clearly have some other agenda goin on here.

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#17

All this states is that the CEO lied and deceived in this one instance not that the Salvation army lies and deceives. This is where you are being too general.

All I am saying is that one man doesn’t dictate the entire group. So if you believe the organisation does good then why protest against them for a single mans fault. The question really should be is the organisation doing more good than bad? If the answer is yes then there the best option is to not protest them as an organisation but more just the act that you dislike. And then do not donate to them yourself.

I personally do not donate directly to the Red Cross due to a personal experience of discrimination and the fact only like $1 out of $10 actually goes to the cause or community you donate towards. I do how ever see that they have done a lot of good and the actions of the specific people I dealt with are more than likely not representative of the whole. Your basis for not donating is along the same line of thought by people that refuse to eat or shop at a specific chain of stores because of a single bad experience. That thought process is extremely short sighted.

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#18

One could argue the same for McDonalds or Wal-Mart, I think people should stop supporting organizations that lie and discriminate, instead of giving $1 six times this holiday season, buy six dollars worth of canned food and give it to a poor person or give it to a food pantry.

Has murdered? No one has said anything about murder or physical harm. I’m saying the Christmas bonus that the top couple dozen stake holders is likely funded by bell ringers, and that they have publicly stated gay people will be and should be punished for the way they are unless they are celibate, citing Romans chapter 1. I have no agenda other than stopping inequality and discrimination.

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#19

You have made your point.

I would strongly suggest if you feel that strongly about inequality and injustice, consider buying a loaf of bread in Venezuela today for 1 USD only to buy one tomorrow for 2750 USD. There may be injustice however this is bonkers!!

Crash

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#20

This is just a control mechnism (Religion) that’s been used for thousands of year & will problerly continue to be used well into the future as long as there are people who need something to believe in rather than themselves.

In my opiniion all religions are generally a con job to control and extort from the massess.

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