Universal basic income


#41

Who pays for it? The government prints money, but they don’t print value. Taxpayers pay for it. Now, I’m not the biggest fan of the entitlements we already have here in the States, which needs drastic reform, but I recognize there are parts of society that for whatever reason cannot work, like the disabled and whatnot. I understand that sometimes welfare and foodstamps are needed, but they should only be as a hand up and not a hand out. There should be strict criteria for receiving these benefits, and some kind of work. At my job, we have temporary assignments for people who are hurt and need time to heal before performing their normal job. This is called light duty and it allows people to do value added work whenever they are unable to perform their regular duties, while being able to heal. I’d be 100% for the government devising some kind of light duty arrangement that would allow those who are on disability or welfare to do SOMEthing that would contribute to society and help pay for the benefits they receive.

Paying someone for the honor of simply existing is a net zero value and is poor stewardship of public resources. I’d sooner have free healthcare and education than just giving someone an income just because, and I’m viscerally opposed to those two things.


#42

Should take a quick watch, he talks about how to pay for it. @JonRD463


#43

‘Hard work’ is not healthy — A word ‘efficient’ would be better here because there is a lot of misconceptions around the idea of work. Moreover, a hard work won’t be necessary with the technological advancements.

Believe me, you would rather see people doing creative activities caused by a free and natural drive of life than see them working long hours in places where they actually don’t want to be.

Natural sentiment toward self-realisation is wonderful - but we want to cultivate it on a higher level in a more comprehensive way.


#44

Your example is correct but not everyone provides the information that you are implying that they do. Just because someone exists doesn’t mean they are providing a value of some sort to the community they are a part of. In your example you are assuming because they have an ability to increase information that they are increasing the information of the community providing the the UBI.

What you consider a good life is not necessarily what another considers a good life. A basic example of this is in many competitve table top games like Warhammer 40k. Its the same game for all but depending on your strategies and how you play you yourself can have fun but make the other persons game miserable. I know this is a very basic example but you cannot make everyone’s life good, because not everyone’s opinion of good align. In this example above one person wants to play competitive and that is fun for them but the other wants to play just to have fun. Life is like this many are competitive and that competition is what they find as a good life. Then there are others that just want stuff for free and that is what they consider a good life. In the same community this is mutually exclusive. UBI will never work unless we are complete robots.


#45

The fact that your thought about a tetrahedron is abstractive does not mean that it does not exist. An information about self-consciousness refers to the essence of our common interest.

Our conversation here is a bit competitive – right?

By a good life, I mean an elimination of all basic problems. UBI will help shift human consciousness on a higher level.

We perceive and co-create reality according to an average of our thoughts qualities. There is a lot of people who struggle in life because of existential uncertainty – it takes valuable energy of attention which could be used for more creative things. In a face of a serious crisis, the mechanism of fight or flight redirects consciousness to operate in archaic parts of a brain. We want all the people to feel safe by the elimination of all survival related issues in order to create a real culture of the future.


#46

You really think we should take this guy seriously. We will pay for it by taxing the corporations? Single Payer? If the young turks like someone, that is a great sign that he is just talking about Socialism with a different mask on.


#47

The big problem with UBI is that the numbers don’t add up within our current economic frameworks. You can’t create an income level that is satisfactory enough for it to fulfill the needs of a human being. That said we have to figure out something as technological unemployment is I think the biggest challenge of our generation more so than climate change!


#48

Yeah I don’t see climate change a big issue either. If it was as bad as made out then space companies would be focusing on that rather than sending rovers to mars.


#49

It doesn’t matter… global warming can easily be solved if it is an issue… This topic is talked about by George Church on edge.org where he talks about how it can be solved in under two years using genetically modified cyanobacteria… it says: Cyanobacteria turn carbon dioxide, a global warming gas, into carbohydrates and other carbon-containing polymers, which sequester the carbon so that they’re no longer global warming gases. They turn it into their own bodies. They do this on such a big scale that about 15 percent of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is fixed every year by these cyanobacteria, which is roughly the amount that we’re off from the pre-industrial era. If all of the material that they fix didn’t turn back into carbon dioxide, we’d have solved the global warming problem in a year or two.
check out the video at https://www.edge.org/videos?page=1 3rd video…George Church


#50

I’ll have a watch later man but yeah you are right if they wanted to solve it they could. They have scientists working out how to terraform mars. So earth would be much easier to get back to sustainable co2 levels


#51

and beyond… tech is vastly more evolved than most people realize. In almost every category. What is sad is how it isn’t being used for the benefit of all. Anytime something amazing is engineered, a corporation buys it up, forces non-disclosure, and patents it…


#52

You act like this is a bad thing. More often than not it is this fight or flight mechanism that breeds innovation. You see it all the time when there is a need human kind will find a way due to fight or flight. Fight or flight removes and boils a problem down to the necessities.

So again a persons very existence does not add value to the community.


#53

Actually I do see it as a big issue but it is a whole other topic and people like Elon think that there is no alternative in the long term prospects for humanity apart from off world and in certain timescales they are absolutely correct. That said technological unemployment is a bigger issue for humanity as we could see unprecedented civil unrest, poverty, war and destruction as a result of jobs being replaced by “machines”!


#54

Intentionally keep up the fight or flight mechanism and you will have an absurd and contradiction – You can call this as an attempt to finally and totally resolve this loop of the problematic way of thinking on a global scale – We don’t want problems in order to inspire innovative thinking.

You present a good direction of activity where the ‘fight’ part of the mechanism is transformed to forward thinking - but you also have a sentiment to follow animal-like impulsiveness which is not bad. You must remember that the most constructive ideas come from a calm mind.


#55

Being lazy is one thing. Bankrupting a country is another. Paris has been burning from riots and there is general uncertainty after the migrant crisis in europe. I think if you’ve lived through this in europe, its easy to see how UBI mixed in with unchecked liberal ideals, open borders, loss of sovereigty and incompetent beauracrats is a deep state wet dream


#56

Deep state wet dream?! Haha! Definitely not! or? Have you been dreaming about that this way? lol

There is a great need for generally understood research – comprehensive study inspired by a natural drive for progress. The intensively growing amount of information will be wasted if people will pay too much attention to the destructive side of the way how the things goes. Did you notice how much value comes from knowledge? I think everyone knows that by now. Don’t get lost in news like these from Paris. We should look for possibilities to realise UBI instead of being against.


#57

Have you read the for and against in the book I posted? How do you handle his concerns? How do you pay for any of this? Just by taxing the people that actually work 70%?


#58

Universal Bad Idea. It’s theft.


#59

You were writing this post 15 minutes …


#60

We already have the best system ever, capitalism. Just have to actually let it happen without all these fools thinking up bad ideas like UBI. And capitalism is not even a “system” anyway…it’s a result…of freedom.