US IRS tax reporting for cryptocurrencies


#142

thanks for creating this forum


#143

The keyword is currency, but I do not understand the rest of your statement. Could you clarify what you were trying to say?


#144

Yes and no. Every CPA I have talked too said this was a grey area and people were not using 1031 (like kind exchange) as intended so how you file will have to be between you and your accountant.


#145

Tommy, the IRS has long said that IRC Section 1031 is not for crypto. Unfortunately everyone says “show me case law”! There is basically none so many people say I’ll use Section 1031 until the IRS tells me definitively that I can’t and they fine me.

I’ve always stated that you need to pay tax EVEN IF you don’t cash out.


#146

@Nekko what I met was that the US is now looking at the crypto currency as and asset base on the value the currency have and going as far as changing laws to get this so called asset to pay taxes on something that do not have physical existence, I believe that once the coin becomes a tangible Currency where is being use and accepted like visa MasterCard where does who have accumulated wealth and transfer from crypto to fiat that’s where it becomes and asset, not now, not before. I personally have no problem paying taxes, but I believe that is still in a premature state for the government to start coming at this, they themselves having a hard time trying to figure out what the all Blockchain is and yet we already heading into this very confusing path of taxation before actual gain… what if you lost your seed, you forget something, you pay tax on coin you don’t have any access to… I’m just touching on basic point here not to case any argument is just my opinion…


#147

Sorry for the duplicate post, but I copied this one from another discussion about hashflare cloudmining. It may be more appropriate here:

How are the US citizens here doing your accounting for a reinvestment setup in hashflare? A spreadsheet, website, quickbooks, other? I haven’t been able to find any sort of export option or gains tracker (like ameritrade) section yet in the panel, but have been following the relevant events in the history section of the panel.

So obviously the payouts are taxable events, but each reinvestment should also be recorded to properly determine basis. Given the 24hr payout and reinvestment cycle this is looking like a headache.


#148

I got a question for the group here. For crypto to crypto trades, what usd price are you guys using when you put in a limit price and it is executed while you are sleeping or not watching the exchange? Do you just grab the avg / low / high price of the day? Is there a site that will give us historical price up to the minute?


#149

Let’s say you brought IOTA 3 months ago and sold it for BTC. I understand the profits made was a short-term gains. Now if you sold the tax amount owned in BTC back into Fiat, that’s another short term gain taxable event. Meaning, you could be paying between 50-60% of your profits in taxes.

I have no problems paying taxes. The main complexity is that with most alts, you “cannot” convert directly into fiat.

Let me know if everything I said is correct.

As of right now, I am:

  1. A Long term holder (HODL)
    2.Document any trades so you can prove to the IRS you held on to a coin for at least a year.

#150

From what I understood does that are buying and holding will have a greater advantage than the day traders because every transaction will be a taxable event…

Don’t quote me on it I’m still learning on the matter.


#151

01/01/18: Buy 100$ btc .
01/02/18: BTC is $120. Sell 120$ btc for 10 ICX on 01/02/18
09/01/18: Sell 10 ICX to BTC. I got $200 for selling ICX for BTC. Transfer $200 to coinbase.
09/10/18: $200 BTC becomes $250, and I withdraw $250 to bank.

My profit is
$20 + $80 + $50 = $150

Taxable is $150

Please let me know if I am correct. Thanks.


#152

That song about right, but I’m no tax expert on the matter.
It maybe a little bit more complicated than that b’cause it will be the same as holding your BTC and gain 150 on it and then withdraw and get tax on the 150, but then I guess if you hold you don’t have the transaction fees that comes with the trades… I just got a headache just thinking about it… CPA please HELP clarify this please…


#153

So question: what if I didn’t cash out to fiat at all in 2017, and while hodling through the new year (2018) any gains that I’ve earned from my 2017 coins will now be taxed? Or are my coins “grandfathered” bc I didn’t sell buy or trade?


#154

The tax law I’m referring to began midnight 2018.


#155

I am still a noob at this but from my understanding of the new tax bill buying and hodling would be far more profitable then day trading. I really wanted to get into investing in alt coins but in order to buy any coins thats not on coinbase and gdax requires BTC/ETH/LTC to said alt coin you want to invest in. According to the tax bill the transaction from BTC/ETH/LTC to said alt coin is a taxable event. I can only assume by the end of the year all these mini taxable events will add up. Any of you ladies and gentlemen thats been in the game for a long time have any thoughts on this?


#156

ChaChing,

Wow. Assuming that you are a US citizen that would be a surprise!!

Presuming that you are ONLY a HODL’er you’ll have no taxes in 2018. You are taxed on realized gains only (not only into fiat but also other crypto).

IF you do sell or convert the coin you’ll have to determine whether there are any gains. They would most likely be taxable. I say “most likely” because I do not know your individual income tax history or circumstances that may also affect your return.

I hope that helps. Let me know by DM if you need other assistance.


#157

Thank you @Peter_Rehm I’ll most probably will hit you up at a later date. Has anyone in our Pub created an excel to help us U.S. citizens keep track of all transactions, trades, etc. to include tax rates and costs? In other words, an all in one Excel sheet that all we have to do is plug in numbers and we know how much tax we will owe.


#158

I am in the process of building a tool to help track and do “Specific Identification” (Google it) Gain/loss offsets (something i see severely lacking in tax discussions). CoinTracking.info is the closest to it, but it still has flaws from what i see, so i’m taking things into my own hands.

i don’t have an ETA on the release date, but I can tell you, I hold/trade over 24 Alt coin and trade then irregularly, and will need to pay the best Tax leveraged Gain/loss possible, so i’m putting my best effort into this for personal gain.

There are many other things to take into account too in 2018:
Atomic Swaps will be a nightmare to track as you will need to know the price of BTC at the time. (I’s storing prices by the 30 minutes, so I plan to leverage this data too)

Taxes suck, but you have to pay them.

I’m also realizing there are some very interesting ‘alternatives’ to trading out there.
And with the new 2018 tax laws, you want to have an LLC set up in such a way that you can leverage the 20% tax reduction before passing through to you as an individual (google that too)

I’ll post back as progress happens.


#159

That’s awesome @cryptoBrad! I’ll make sure to keep my eye out for it. Thanks for your advise, I’ll research your recommendations.


#160

I have a similar portfolio and needs so let me know if you need any beta testers. I’d gladly pay for it when you think it’s ready because there is definitely a lack of quality tools in the space.


#161

Hey @cryptoBrad put me on your list as well, I’m in the same boat as you and right now because of the new law I’m not doing much of anything til I come up with or find the best strategy possible to minimize my taxable events and to be honest it suck to feel restrained.

I know with got about 15 months in front of us but the crypto world is so dynamic that things can get out of control really fast.

I’m really joyful of this PUB it is really making a strong crypto community TO THE MOON :rocket: