Roger Ver deposits 25,000 BTC to Bitfinex to manipulate the market

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Nathan_D

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Really no surprise. Roger’s new moniker should be “Bitcoin Antichrist”. Nothing quite like making a complete mockery of the entire industry over a petty scaling debate.


Not everyone eats, sleeps, and breathes crypto. Most don’t check the news. If Roger somehow pulls this off, I’ll feel so bad for the hundreds of thousands of people around the world who use BTC as a store of value, and don’t have a clue what’s going on. There’s entire cities in Africa who pooled together all their money to buy BTC and ensure a brighter future, and this guy thinks that scalability is more important.


I hope history is later written to properly convey what Roger and Jihan Wu have done here. They need to be held accountable.


PS. I did TA and cashed out of BTC at $7250 and intend to buy back in once it bottoms. As such, I currently don’t hold BTC, and don’t have a horse in this race. My sentiments are purely based on ethics and ideologies, which I feel Roger has repeatedly violated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7cefom/roger_ver_just_sent_25k_btc_to_bitfinex
 
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i dont get the hate for this guy… he wants to improve bitcoin and improve the space. he could buy his own island and live there…
if he really wanted to be an “anarchist” he would REALLU attack bitcoin with a 51% attack.
i think there are alot of bitcoin loyalists who are hesistant to think it may be improved upoon
 
I’m sure you’re a really great guy (I mean that sincerely), but the fact that you’re able to justify tens of BILLIONS of dollars being manipulated and outright scammed from unsuspecting people, all for the sake of scalability, is…well, it’s quite alarming.
Roger has paid off everyone. Look at Bitcoin.com, cointelegraph, etc. All of it, all the “news”, the articles, the media coverage… it’s all manufactured. Then the price and hashrate are being obviously manipulated. This is seriously fucked up, completely unethical, and all for what? Faster and cheaper transactions…that in a years time IF mass adoption hits (doubtful after this mess), will be slow as hell anyway.
Again, I do respect your posts. But man… the fact that people aren’t seeing the harm being done here is horrifying. This is on the verge of being up there with some of the biggest acts of fraud in human history, and I’m honestly not even sure if that’s an exaggeration. And yet, you guys are supporting it?
Love this community, but I can’t believe what I’m seeing.
 
I understand where you are coming from, but people investing in bitcoin should know that they are entering an extremely volitile market… one in which the “original” bitcoin blockchain has already been displaced multiple times during forks. A market that is HIGHLY manipulated by miners and whales.
If Roger was doing a 51% attack, i would be 100% against that. that would be an attack. He and the people who have the same views as him regarding the scaling of bitcoin MOVING their money and mining power to bitcoin cash is NOT an attack.
is this not a free market? if it is, the concensus will decide. why should roger and those miners be forced to stay in bitcoin/segwit1X? what obligation do they have where they arent allowed to do with their investments as they see fit?
if you spent tens of millions on mining equipment, and felt that for longevity and to survive longterm mining that scaling would need to be addressed, would you want to be forced to keep mining segwit1x?
 
Although I don’t agree, I feel that was a very respectable rebuttal. I genuinely mean no ill will, and I’m happy that you at least have taken a well thought stance (even if I feel it’s incredibly misplaced).
As for free market, I think there’s a huge difference between the ability to spend your money as you please, and outright fraud and manipulation. After all, insider trading isn’t classified as a free market strategy, so why should this?
As for mining, they’re able and free to mine any coin they like. They’re even free to create BCH, which I’m okay with. It’s HOW they’re going about it that is completely unethical, and utterly detrimental to the entire industry…including themselves. They clearly don’t realize the long term damage that’s being done here, as confidence in the market will decrease significantly after this mess - regardless of which coins becomes the new BTC.
 
Thank you… we can certainly agree to disagree and i dont assume to be correct on this. it is just how i see it and my opinions.
I guess i dont see your point of view that it is unethical. you reference a few times that it is about “how they are doing it” that bothers you but you dont really get into “how they are doing it” and what specifically you find unethical.
I also think the insider trading analogy is not an “apples to apples” Comparison. Roger ver and the other big players have been very transparent with their goals. they are all openly huge supporters of bitcoin cash. and they have some very practical reasons why they support it.
All they are doing, is moving their miners and moving their investments from bitcoin to bitcoin cash. What is unethical about that?
As far as confidence in the market, i dont think it will really be hurt. the confidence will just move from bitcoin to bitcoin cash. i dont think confidence will leave the maket the way it would if there was a 51% attack. i think if roger actually attacked the segwit chain, that would be an issue and it would cause serious market issues.
 
I’ll agree to disagree, but will respond to the lack of confidence in the market aspect. Think of all the people who recently signed up and bought their first BTC. 100,00 new investors per day on Coinbase. Think of all the people who will see the infighting and uncertainty on the news.
How many of those people will want to invest, knowing that at any point, within a 3 days period of time, their investment in BTC could suddenly lose half its value, and a new BTC take it’s place without them even realizing it?
Crypto is high risk. We all know that. But we risk based on calculated assessments, and a few years of data. But when that data can be completely upended and started anew, all in a 3 day period of time, well, it doesn’t exactly provoke the masses to come rushing in with trillions of dollars.
If I was Wall Street right now, I’d have to undergo serious reconsideration, and delay entry for another year or two.
 
I think that " a 3 day period" is not an accurate timeline. Bitcoin Cash has been out for a few months and prior to that was planned for almost a year before it got concensus. and prior to that there were 4 forks whose intention was basically the same (increase block size).
I dont think that this is an event that was recently spring on the community.
 
I think it’s a good thing overall because ultimately it’s testing just exactly how secure BTC is. Surviving this will only make it stronger. If it comes out on top which I’m pretty sure it will then confidence in BTC will have a net gain.
I think BTH has a major weakness in that Roger Ver represents a single point of attack for the whole BTH network because he’s the main voice of the whole project. If he slips up, or his reputation takes a big hit, a scandal etc., then BTH will be damaged by association. If he wants BTH to have any chance in the long run then he needs to step away from it and prove just how decentralised it really is.
 
JasonMasterNET said:
I understand where you are coming from, but people investing in bitcoin should know that they are entering an extremely volitile market… one in which the “original” bitcoin blockchain has already been displaced multiple times during forks. A market that is HIGHLY manipulated by miners and whales.
If Roger was doing a 51% attack, i would be 100% against that. that would be an attack. He and the people who have the same views as him regarding the scaling of bitcoin MOVING their money and mining power to bitcoin cash is NOT an attack.
is this not a free market? if it is, the concensus will decide. why should roger and those miners be forced to stay in bitcoin/segwit1X? what obligation do they have where they arent allowed to do with their investments as they see fit?
if you spent tens of millions on mining equipment, and felt that for longevity and to survive longterm mining that scaling would need to be addressed, would you want to be forced to keep mining segwit1x?
Click to expand...
I have invested into Bitcoin on my understanding that it is currently a good store of value. My intention has been to HODL from the start. I understood some risks from outside manipulation, but nothing I read prepared me for whats happening now. I don’t mind price fluctuations, but the BCH pump we are seeing and possible dethroning of BTC is very concerning.


The money I have put into BTC I don’t need for years to come as it’s everything we have saved for my three children since they were born. We have saved and bought 2 bitcoin for each of them. My concern with HODL’ing is will BTC even be there for them if BCH replaces BTC by next year.


After watching the latest John McAfee video, where he tells Peter that he has no Bitcoin of BCH because he doesn’t speculate, i.e. HODL’ing (accumulating) is speculation. I am preparing to reduce my risk of loss by moving my Bitcoins off cold storage and onto an exchange to sell. Hopefully, still in profit as my BTC was obtained at an average of $4000.


I still love the idea of crypto and will continue to invest in blockchain platforms, but this BTC/BCH debacle has put me off Bitcoin. Saying that, I’ll probably continue to use LTC and ZCash for trading with friends, you know beers/pizzas etc.
 
Information on Bitcoin Cash has been very readily available for quite some time. including on this forum, since its inception. While it may not be on mainstream news like CNN or BBC, information about bitcoin cash has bee there on all the news sources for crypto. reddit, steemit, bitcoin.org, bitcoin.com, roger vers youtube channel, richard hearts youtube channel, etc…
As far as your goal to Hold as a long term investment, I can sympathize with that… however, i dont think it is the obligation of other investors and other miners to insure that your investment or my investments stay profitable for the long term. I think everyone needs to act in self interest as long as it isnt breaking any rules or being unethical.
I agree with McAfee, and holdings are speculation. That is why i subscribe to the “buckets of money” philosihoy. equal distorbution into my 401K, Roth IRA, high risk stock account, high risk crypto account, and then traditional, flat, low yield savings.
crypto along with my ameritrade account are my 2 highest risk investments/stores of money. I accepted that risk when i put it in, knowing it is uninsured. and that no one in the markets owe me anything. it is just a notch below gambling
 
You are speculating when you hold anything.
If you hold your FIAT, you are speculating.
If you have stocks, you are speculating.
If you own a property, you are speculating.
I do understand the risks and especially when your kids are involved.
Did you know the BTC has been working on unlimited transactions?
 
Agree that there prob are improvements needed
But forcing his view on how it needs to be is just plain wrong.Why did he need to make BCH anyway ? im pretty sure there was altcoins doing what BCH does before he made it anyway , this is just about controll and forcing his and his gangs agenda on the crypto community ,while also trying to do a hostile takeover on the name recognition of btc
Just my 2cents:p
 
If you think buying and selling is the same as fraud, then…yeah. Moving on. 😂
 
Id love to hear how selling bitcoin (which is what you did as well) is market manipulation. I’d also be interested to find out what ethics you and roger ver disagree on.
 
How about manipulation, fake news and misinformation, paying off media and exchanges, conspiring, etc.
If you think thats the same as trading, then this conversation is pointless.
 
thanks @goodoldfiat, looks interesting, I’ll need to digest that video before doing anything rash. But I think the reasons for the BCH/BTC war that we are seeing right now have little to do with the technicals, as Peter had mentioned, most people don’t care or are not aware of the scaling issue. I doubt that Roger Ver and the miners would have that much buying power to flip BTC/BCH on their own. They must have the help institutional buyers in Korea and Hong Kong speculating BCH and their evil plan to take on the world:)
 
Ok so i hadn’t caught up on the actual story you posted and sure I see how you can think thats shady, but is that any shadier than the price of bitcoin rising the past few months because people thought they were getting free money?
 
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